Why Joy Finds Us: Darius Wallace on Acting, Meditation, and Finding Your Voice

Alison Woo: Welcome to the Zest for War podcast, where we are all about finding joy beyond our jobs. I'm Gwen Ostervan. And I'm Alison Wu. And welcome back. We are two former communications colleagues and friends who find ourselves asking a lot of the same questions. Like, how do we pursue or aside passion projects, whether it is cooking or jewelry or we're going to talk about today, going to theater and plays and finding joy. Beyond what we do in our day jobs. So we're going even deeper into different ways people find joy, even in difficult times, both in the larger world and in their own lives. And today we're really excited because we're going to talk to someone who's going to remind us that sometimes joy finds us. Our next guest is Darius Wallace, an actor, a writer, a speaking code. And he has come to treasure joy in multiple ways, as I discovered when I first met him. where he was in character as Frederick Douglass, outside of a theater in Newtown PA, which is in Bucks County. And it wasn't coincidence that he was in Newtown, because Frederick Douglass, more than 160 years earlier, had also been in the same theater to give some speech about why we need to create the country where everyone can thrive and where everybody is treated with equality and can find justice. Douglas was on this campaign to introduce and promote the Freedmen's Bureau when he found himself in Butts County. And Drias was finding himself in the winter of 2026, impersonating Frederick Douglass for the second time. And I asked him, How did you come upon this activity, this profession where you are impersonating one of the greats of American history? And you did it so flawlessly that you did not break character. But you talked about how. And helped you find joy and you wanted to help other people. And so I said we have to have Darius on our podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for having me here. I'm very glad to be here. I'm glad to see you again. I know I met you at the VIP. And I know you came out to see the show. And and yeah, so great to be with you guys. So Darius, tell us a little bit about how you got into acting. And theater to begin with. Are you in the New York area? Where are you based? I'm actually based in Atlanta, Georgia, but I was raised in Flint, Michigan. Flint is known for the water crisis and the closing of GM, which fortunately they finally have gotten fixed. So that's that's good. I as a little boy, my father took me to see a movie. And when I finished seeing the movie, I came back punching. kicking and screaming. I had just seen Bruce Lee's Enter the Dragon. And I wanted to be just like Bruce Lee. And so when I heard that he was a childhood actor, I wanted to act. But I was really shy. And every time I stood up in front of people, I would always forget my lines. And 13 years old, I was the size that I am now and I by then I practiced a lot of martial art, I fought, I kickboxed. So I was a prime target for gang life because GM left and The crack epidemic hit and Flint was sort of turned upside down. And then there was an intervention with my junior high school vice principal and gave me an ultimatum. And and giving me that ultimatum, I ended up choosing to go the route of theater. And so that transformed my life. And really since then, that's predominantly all I've ever done. I've tried other things, but Always has brought me back to theater. And so here I am all these decades later, still doing acting in general, theater, movies, television. my goodness. I mean, you found your calling. It sounds like acting is really more of a vocation, or you've called you than it is a job. Do you find that you find immense joy in what you do? You said you tried doing other things, but what brought you back each time? Yeah, I'm I'm glad that you all have this. this podcast because it's very true, it does give me a a tremendous amount of joy. and and it it's it's it's interesting because when you you can be in denial of your joy too. And so that when you're doing it, you there's a guilty feeling about it or there's that still feeling of of imposter syndrome and you're not enjoying the thing that you enjoy. And so then you deceive yourself to try to do other stuff. And yeah, so no, no, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. I was gonna say especially in the creative arts, in the creative fields, you know, I think our parents all look out for us and want us to be safe and you know, have a you know, good head roof over our head and a good living. And so I find that if you are interested sometimes in creative fields, sometimes you can get discouraged. But how was your family helpful in supporting you? Follow this creative path no matter what. they were very, very supportive. I mean, they really believed in it, really in anything I wanted to do, they believed in it. And so they supported it a hundred percent. You know, when you get into adulthood, at that point they start questioning. You know, that for the reasons that you said, you know. my father would have been excited for me to work for, you know, the utility company. You know what I mean? Was it because that would be more your father wanted to do that because that was more stable and But it's it's interesting though because what I'm what I'd do financially as an actor is is so much more than that. You know what I mean? And so, so I think that that's the other thing too, when you're doing what you love to do, or or doing the things that bring you joy, health and prosperity follow. I think when you deny that, you'll miss one of the two. You can miss one of the two. You know, you can have maybe good health, but be struggling financially to have financial but struggling with health, 'cause you're denying something that's really deep within you. So I'm peeking picking up on this idea of when you're in denial and finding out who you really are, something that you've talked about publicly as part of what you discovered when you took on the role of Frederick Douglass was like the importance of finding your voice. Yes. Could you share with us a little bit about what that was like and how finding your own voice helped you Or drew you to Frederick Douglass. Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I think in all honesty, I'm only now finding my own voice. Even though I've been acting and, you know, it's been in me. And but there's still the chiseling away as to the discovery of who you really are. And I think that that definitely d Frederick Douglass contributed to that, as well as other characters and you know, things that I've been in. But I think it really gets down to discovering who am I alone from anything else. I think is where you find your voice. Who am I when I'm not acting? Right? who am I before a father? before any of the experiences I'm experiencing, who am I? Because a lot of times we're living someone else's dream. You know, we're living someone else's thoughts, we're living someone else's opinions. And then we lose ourselves in all of those idols. You know? And so I think the discovering your voices is that that to me really it has come as a result of meditation. Okay. We're gonna unpack that. Yeah, yeah. I would love to hear how the meditation on the solitude of that helped you find your voice. Would you would you say more about how either you came up cross meditation and how often do you do it? Yeah. well, just to to make it real real really quick, I injured my knees a long time ago playing Charles the Wrestler. In As You Like It, Shakespeare's As You Like It. And my actor friend and I had a I I couldn't bend my knees anymore. So I had a limp like a Fred Sanford walk, and I had to use a rail to climb the stairs. And I was only 37 years old. And so I was thinking, well, you know, maybe I'm just this is just time. I'm just you know, I'm just getting old now. So this is it. I'm gonna, you have this Fred Sanford walk. And then a friend of mine another actor called me and he said, hey, you gotta come to learn Tai Chi. And I said, really I do? He said, Yeah, there's a Buddhist temple. they teach it for free. And so I went there and I started learning Tai Chi and my knees over time healed. And so then I learned a form of meditation there that introduced me to meditation. And there is something about the power of silence. In that silence, what you can discover about yourself and about life, you realize that your body is not you. You live you live in your body. And then understanding that, well, you know, who am I? Who do I say I am? You know, do I say that I'm my father? Do I say that I'm Bruce Lee? Do I say that I'm my mother or my pastor or rabbi or imam? Who do I say I am? And when you realize what that is, then you discover your voice that you in fact are A light to the world or a son of man or woman, son as an S U N a light. out that. So deep. So what did the voice say to you? Who are you? I am. And that's that. And I will be what I want to be. I imagine that's very freeing, right? When because actors talk about the fact that when they inhabit a role, you know, they have to bring a part of them to the role. Right. They wouldn't be able to do the role successfully if it didn't live somehow within them. So, what was it within you that you felt you brought to the role of Frederick Douglass? I believe that, you know, my father also inspired. Well, I had trouble reading when I was a kid. And my father would use books as tools to give me inspiration. And so he Early on, he got me interested in the the power of the written spoken word and what w how words produce ideas. And once you have ideas, you know, everything that we see right now, this tablet, you know, you guys this micro room, it didn't exist. It was in someone's imagination. And they manifested it into reality. And so my father taught me that in a at an early age. And I think that just that alone helped me get in tune to what Frederick Douglass was in tune with, because he knew at seven years old he wasn't supposed to be a slave. And he began to imagine himself free. He imagined himself being a senator. He never became a senator, but he became so much greater. You know, he wanted to inspire people through argument and debate and stories. And so I believe that that part of me. Is what I bring to the character of Frederick Douglass. And as someone who was in the audience, one of the things that I was really struck by, besides your presence and how you inhabited this role for a really long time, and your voice and your cadence and the way you use silence, as you just reflected about the importance of silence, the way you protected your voice was so dramatic. Just would you mind unpacking a little bit of that, but the physicality of finding your voice? Yeah. when I was w yeah, I wasn't joking when I said when I was thirteen years old, I you know, I I was flunking my eighth grade acting class. Because no one could hear me, no but well, no one could understand me. I had a a a typical urban midwestern accent. And And and then I would forget all my lines. And so once my theater teacher, high school theater teacher by now, Mr. Jennings, helped me find my sp speaking voice, right? And he always got on me about my articulation, I was talented enough to get accepted into high school of performing arts in a Loch and Arts Academy where I was taught under Jude Levinson, who was a student of what's called the Link Letter technique of voice. And so she taught me that. And then I went to a college that also was specialized in that same voice. And then as an adult, a professional actor, I was the founding company member of Tennessee Shakespeare. And I was with them for 15 years. They also were students of Link Letter. So I've had all this these years of experience with that vocal technique. That basically helps me not just be able to project, but then also to to emote and also to to change my voice and characters and things of that nature is a result of of training, is what that is. You talked about using your acting skills in other ways. So now you're also helping other people find their voice. And you did a very successful TEDx in Memphis. And you are now helping coaching and doing mindfulness for more corporate team building. What inspired you to help others to do this? And what's that journey been like at the intersection of theater with teams? Well, that is where that that gets back to the more specifics of what you asked. what is my voice? You know, who am I? And it's that. I'm I'm an inspirer, I'm an inspirationalist. And so it I bring that. level of inspiration or that ingredient of inspiration to to help others with their speaking and help others with their storytelling and help others with their acting. And so I it all came by accident that I started doing it. it was just as simple as, you know, a guy that was a commercial real estate broker found out I was an actor and asked if I would help his brokers. And I my reply was you paying? It was just that simple. And when he said yes. But then I saw the impact that I was having on on people. And and I saw how inspired they were. And I loved seeing these light bulbs go off and this level of confidence rise and being a support to whatever anxiety they may have had. And I think through the course of time that that still is a driving force because I I I perform more than I coach. But whenever I'm coaching, I it's just like with performing. My goal ultimately, the ultimate goal is for an individual to feel better that than what they felt when they came in. I mean, you're taking salespeople and people who don't normally act, do they ever tell you they can't do it? What is their what what is the transformation you see in them when they do it? it's It's different it's different levels because if they're already skilled, what I love hearing is that they've learned so much more, right? They've gotten so many other techniques and they've there's revelations that's happened for them. But then if it's all the way down to the a person who Maverick, who was maybe a five foot three, I don't know, twenty eight year old redhead white guy. That sat down. When he sat down, he sat down like he was an 18-year-old kid. And we spent two hours on two sentences. That's how much of an introvert he will he was. But I discovered some things about him that I capitalized on. He he was he he's a hard worker and he responds to repetition. And so with him. There was a there was a complete 180 and transformation where when he finished, he was wanting to to get a a job, past the interview process. By the time I finished with him, he was getting all these interviews. He got hired at several jobs, one of which was the one he wanted. A year later, he gets promoted. A year later, he gets an award for leadership. And when you see him now, he's walking out and he's his chest is out and he's massively confident you wouldn't recognize him. Does does he attribute that kind of process to what you were able to unlock with him in that exercise? That's that's what he says. That's great so that's a great testimonial. Yeah, it's it's it's that that broad range of you know the all the all this all that's happening with me, I think is what my high school theater teacher gave me. It's just the same He did he transform, he helped me see something in myself that I didn't see. And I think that I'm I'm that's the fire burning in my bones. Is I wanna help people see the potential that's in them and then be there for them as they discover it. So that's the coach in me. And then as the actor, I also want people to experience a catharsis that that that leads to some form of inspiration or transformation. So that's my voice. That's a voice and a mission. It is. That's that I love how that goes hand in hand for you and how clear you are about that and what you bring to help other people. one thing that I also like saw in terms of how you're you're very open and transparent about your own journey. You shared a little bit even here. I loved how you described the urban Midwestern accent. I like how you can inhabit these different regional dialogues. But the the larger question is you also referred to the transformation of this young gentleman. And you talked about sometimes what people might have anxiety. Do you Find that if you're open about your challenges, it helps other people talk about or even look at it in themselves as a process of figuring out how to find your own voice? I think so. I think that there's because I've I've gone through depression, I've gone through anxiety, I've gone through addiction. And what I've learned is we become comfortable when we hear other people's stories, because we may hear our own in those stories. And then we hear our own in those stories, then we feel more comfortable to share our stories. And we're only as sick as our secrets, right? So once we're able to reveal, well, then at that point you're being transparent and honest where you are. And that's when you can really build when you're honest, when you're rigorously honest with yourself, you know, with other people. It doesn't mean you have to like expose everything of, you know, to the world. It just means You as human beings, we're great pretenders. We pretend to want to be somebody we don't like. We pretend to not be afraid when we are. We pretend to understand life when we don't. But when we when we're willing to have the courage to admit our vulnerability, our anger, our the unknown, our unknowingness, that's where the magic is actually. Why do you think people pretend? I think it's it's probably a lot of different reasons. I think that there's what our parents or society or our religion expects from us. And we want to live up to that and we want to live up to it perfectly, or else we'll be judged. So it's easier to pretend that we are those things. Yes. Even though we're not. Well it can be easy to fall into programming, right? From all of those factors that you talked about. So I love how you talked about meditation as a way to break out of that programming. Yeah. And I would wonder now at this point in your life where you have kind of opened up this path, what do you do to get more zest out of your own life? And what about what passions or pursuits or activities do you are you involved in that bring you great joy? Yeah, I I like I said Tai Chi is major in my life. Yoga's major in my life. Eating what makes me feel good is is major in my life. I love reading. I get inspiration from books and words. And what are you reading? What are you reading? What are your favorite authors or any that are like stalwarts? Yeah, I have all these books everywhere. I have like right now in front of me. you know, I have a Books. I I think right now I would say there's a a a in the new is there's a there's a philosophical world called New Thought World. And there's a a major writer in that world is whose name is Neville Gardard. And Neville Gardard was a have you heard of New Thought? Do you know what that is? I I've heard about New Thought. I'm not familiar with Neville Neville Gardard. Yeah, he was a major pillar in the in the in the movie. And so a lot of his writings bring me great a great deal of inspiration and joy. Neville Goddard is his name. Okay. He's gonna go in the show notes. That's right. We will please. I think that people will really be amazed at Neville Goddard and his teacher. so I'll I'll I'll let you guys discover that. Thank you. Just maybe zooming out a little bit around the time that we're living in where it might be hard to find joy and connection and kind of going back to the experience of seeing you on stage in Bucks County being Frederick Douglass. Are do you what kind of reaction do you get when you're doing that show right now today as America? And what do you think it says about? People's interest in kind of going back to history. We're in the 250th anniversary of the United States. Frederick Douglass is a great American who helped remind us of what the US could actually really be. Yes. And I was curious: like, how do you find that intersection of that kind of dialogue with your audiences and where you think we are as a country and a society? Trying to figure out how we find moments of joy and connection. Yeah, I think the thing that I'm really encouraged by is Frederick Douglass is more relevant now than any of the past, I don't know, sixty, seventy years. He's he's as relevant now as the as in the eighteen hundreds. and but what's great is is the enthusiasm the there's a mass amount of enthusiasm for Frederick Douglass and his words and acceptance. I think sometimes there's a shock or surprise because people most people don't know what he said or who who he was or what he stood for. But when they find out, there is this jolt, you know, because you it's all kinds of things. But I think overall, when they get the that that inspirational side of his story and what he stood for, what he meant. there's a there's just a a massive amount of influence. And what's great is is that there are there places like Newtown Theater that invite me to perform where he spoke. And these places have statues of him. I was I just came from Hillsdale, Michigan, where they have a statue of him there. And and that's that's rural Michigan. It was an abolitionist school College back in the eighteen hundreds. But this is this is there's probably one percent African American. It's probably I think ten percent or maybe twenty percent Hispanic, I think, but it's predominantly white, but they have their hero is Frederick Douglass. And there's an actual photograph that he took at the school. I think it's his most famous photograph was taken at that school. That's hanging on their wall. So there's that kind of You know, when I was in DC d at the Lincoln Memorial as Frederick Douglass doing the anniversary speech of the Lincoln Memorial speech, it was just so much a massive mode enthusiasm and people encouraging me to keep doing it because we need this history. And these weren't just African American people. It was people in general were saying this. So I think that that's very, very encouraging. And as far as the divisiveness and how we deal with this time, well, one thing is for certain, we were born for such a time as this. You're here for this time on purpose. And there's something that you can do with and for this time, because you were born for this time. And I think understanding that you're born for this time is one messaging. Of what can bring you peace or serenity or joy. Wait a minute, I'm born for this. This is an exciting, amazing time. there's a lot of horrific things going on. But in Frederick Douglass' there's a lot of horrific things were going on too. And so I think that that that number one, to understand that, number two, your life is not in vain. Number three, because of all of this, and not to not to get religious because I'm not. But a lot of the the avatars said a lot of beautiful things that make sense to me. And Jesus was one of who said, The kingdom of God is within you. And that is I found that to be massively true. So they're the governments of the world, you know, they have bigger guns. I don't even have a gun. They have all kinds of things. They have chemicals, they have bombs, they have jails, they have all kinds of things that they can almost do whatever they want to do. But that's not my kingdom. So I'm not worried about that. Well, I that is amazing, amazing advice for these times. Question, you talk a Alec, about, you know, obviously the role of Frederick Douglass is such a great historical figure. What is it for you as an actor to play a historical figure versus a contemporary figure? Because you've been on other shows, Law and Order, etcetera. What's the difference for you as an actor in those different roles? I I believe that there's externally There's the desire to get it right. It's just a tremendous desire, like, I hope I get it right. because of what they meant to people. And so I I think that there's that. And then there's, you know, with like the Law and Order character or any other characters that I play, it's just all me. It's my imagination. The director will give me a hint, the writer. But with someone like Frederick Douglass or Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., They spoke a certain way, you know, they thought a certain way. They behaved a certain way. And so as the actor I have to find those those sounds and those gestures and those nuances. And then the other thing too is the the hi the historical research or the research is very specific because these people really lived. So I think that it's more At first more cerebral, and at first more academic, because you're really having to pinpoint exactness to a certain degree. whereas with a fictional character, you still want to do research and you still want to discover, but you know, it's your imagination totally. Whereas with historical characters, you gotta include all these other facts. with your imagination. Because your imagination is still me. Right. And is there a role that you're dying to play? Is there another role that you're like, I wish I could do that one? yeah, there's a lot of roles. Like I I go back and forth. People want to see me do other things and I'm like, I don't know, guys. I think I'm I think I've done enough. Historical characters. But there's Jack Johnson, who was the first black heavyweight champion. There's Paul Robeson who was a major theater and film actor back in the twenties, nineteen twenties and thirties. there's James Baldwin. was another character I would love to do. it's really just this is so many. I mean it's you know this is a lot. Are you gonna keep doing Frederick Douglass shows and what's your thought there? Yeah I I I will. I I I think that there was a a Two or three, maybe four, maybe five, maybe six, seven, eight, nine, maybe ten moments of my life where I was like, Okay, this is it. I'm done. You know? but then I'll do the show and see the impact and I was like, I gotta keep doing this. I gotta keep doing this. I think now I've come to the place that I was born to do this. And so I don't know that I'll I'll never retire from doing Frederick Douglass. So Well, for all the kids and grown ups who can get to see you do that, it's pretty phenomenal and and it brings us it it did me and my family was an amazing performance. thank you. So thank you for for doing that and rising to the moment that we're in. Therese, is there anything else that we we didn't cover here that you're what prompted to kind of reflect on or wanna share, whether it's about joy or acting or Yeah. Find your voice again. I think joy is is really very, very important. I spent the majority of my life being unjoyful. and I know that there are people out there listening that you you you're there's no joy and you think the depression is actually how it's supposed to be 'cause you don't know anything else. That's how I was. I didn't know it was possible to not be depressed or to not be angry or To live j a joyless life. I didn't know that it was possible to live a life with lots and lots of joy. And so that's real very, very important. And so I want to just say a couple of things to that for the audience to think about it. if you're struggling with addiction as I had, got sober in two thousand nine, getting sober is the first step because it'll only get better after that. doesn't mean life won't happen, that's for sure. But that's the beginning of it. And then also to being honest with yourself and having the courage to really be truthful to who you are and what is in you to do is one of the two major things I would say that can bring you joy. And whatever your conscious contact with your higher power is, don't shy away from that. Embrace it. whatever that is, because I I would say that also too will bring you lots of joy. So before where can people find out where you'll be and connect with you, Darius? Sure. Facebook is a big one. so they can connect with me on Facebook. Just my name. on Facebook is my full name, Phil Dereas Wallace. and then I'm on all the social media. You can look me up on Instagram under Dereas Wallace, Darius Actor, I think. And then also YouTube, Darius3579. I think if you just put Darius Wallace in any of those places, I'll I'll pop up. And then my website is my name, Darius Wallace.com. And it's actually spelled like Darius. I spelled it the way that I spell it so that it makes it easier for people to get it. But it's D-A-R-I-U-S-W-A-L-L-A-C-E dot com. Phenomenal. Dereas, thank you so very much. What a wonderful journey you've been on. And thanks for sharing a little bit of it with us. thank you for having me. This is a great show to be on and a great idea. And so I'm so glad to be a part of it. We appreciate it. And like you sign off each or each email with inspiration and gratitude. Yes. We appreciate you. Thank you. You're welcome. you're welcome. Thank you guys. Will you guys be blessed and we'll we'll be in touch. Thanks, Therese. Bye bye. Thank you. Take care. Thank you. Bye bye. Bye. I love it. So Gwen. Quite an interesting guest. What is your take? It's just instantly deep and open and honest about the challenges he's been on and I just think that he clearly doesn't shy away from difficult topics or meaty ones for sure. I mean, the speech that I heard him give of Frederick Douglass was kind of riveting. He I hard to compress it into a soundbite here. But I I hadn't really read that much about Frederick Douglass as a kid studying history. I gravitated to international stuff more than US stuff. So when my son son started studying American history, I got really into it. And that's what led us to see the Frederick Douglass show. And I sensed that there was a lot more to this person behind the actor. And I feel like there's Definitely a lot of conversation there that would be like fodder for many future conversations is my my summary. He's definitely very deep and he has a presence that just emanates. You can feel that. I also love the fact that for you know 99.9% of us who are not actors, this thought of pretending and you know living through expectation is really interesting. Sometimes it's so subtle you don't even realize it. And the idea that meditation gives you a slip in that space to be more cognizant, to discover that and discover your joy. So what a great resource to to remind ourselves. I think we all get very busy in our lives and you go, go, go, and then we don't remember that actually making the time for it. We're always about how do you find your joy? Meditation is such a great recommendation to do that. Yeah. And I would just the last thought is there's a paradox of pretending. when you have to get into the shoes and that whole fabric of a different person, you put away your own stuff, and then you kind of can start to see how another person experiences life. And then that helps you kind of listen better, communicate better. So his his whole thing around voice and the physicality of voice and his own struggles with both like learning and like literally speaking loud enough so kids could hear him, so he didn't flunk. This acting class was was such a great reminder that everyone you you don't just like wake up and suddenly go, I'm gonna be fragile jabbless on stage and have this moving preludes. Life is definitely a process, as is joy. catch all of our video podcast episodes on youtube.com at Zest for More. You can also go to the website zestremore.com or listen to us on Apple or Spotify. Thanks so much for listening. Until next time. Thanks so much, Gwyn. Thank you all. Bye. Bye.